DrewBarrett
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Joined: Feb 24, 2007
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Hi, I'm new here. I'm out in Mason City and I'm in pre-production of a short to be filmed in June and I've got a lot of exterior night scenes to shoot, but one in particular has been troubling me. Here's the excerpt from the script of the scene:
EXT. Night, Hill overlooking Roag Outpost
*Palidran keeps walking a few feet and stumbles over a log at the top of a hill overlooking a field covered with tents and soldiers, the Roag Outpost. Palidran looks at outpost frenzied*
V.O. PALIDRAN
And if you’re not back?
V.O. LAEVA
Look for the red flags and you will find me.
*Palidran stares down at the Roag Outpost, giant red flags waving in the wind*
*Palidran is in a frenzy, Palidran breathing very heavy, staring*
*Palidran moves his hand close to his pocket, his hand shaking*
V.O. PALIDRAN (Cuts to Remealle Throne Room)
And after we have this power, will we drive the Roags from the land? Will we save Laeva, will we save them?
KING FARON
Laeva is beyond our reach now.
*Palidran reaches into his pocket and takes out the box, his hand trembling*
*Palidran walks to Raem and rips the chain with key off of his neck and walks back to the edge of the hill and looks down on the Roag Outpost. Palidran stares down at the camp with a blood frenzy, breathing very heavy, and takes the box in one hand and moves the key towards it with his other hand. Palidran inserts the key into the box, he pauses staring down at the Red Flags, Palidran turns the key and the box opens with a flash of light*
__________End Excerpt__________
I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to light this scene because I'll need Palidran lit and then the Roag Outpost at the bottom of the hill lit. Will I just need lots of extension cords from my generator going down the hill, or would it be better with two generators? I could use torches at the Roag Outpost to create a little light, so that could explain where the light is coming from, rather than trying to make moon light from above. Any ideas? Thanks.
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Posted Feb 24, 2007, 11:18 am
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filmmakerbruce
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Drew,
Before talking generators, what's your light kit? What's your budget?
Welcome to the boards, by the way!
Bruce
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Posted Feb 24, 2007, 6:48 pm
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Apoptosis
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Any reason you can't shoot day for night?
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.........................
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else.
--Theodore Roosevelt
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Posted Feb 24, 2007, 11:21 pm
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DrewBarrett
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Joined: Feb 24, 2007
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I have a really lackluster kit, just things from hardware stores, like a double 1000 watt halogen light stand, and some light reflectors. I'm planning on getting some newer lights, but I'm not sure what I need. I'm in highschool, so money is an issue, I could only spend around $200 or less on lights.
I wasn't sure if lighting night for day would work, because aren't you supposed to not show the sky doing that or it will ruin the trick? Because I think the sky will have to show at the hilltop. I'm really new to all of this, som I'm not really quite sure what to do.
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Posted Feb 25, 2007, 1:00 pm
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filmmakerbruce
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Joined: Nov 28, 2006
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Drew,
You're right. Day for night shooting is really tricky. One of the problems, aside from showing the lighter toned sky, is in contrast and shadows. You can't really duplicate the sideways shadows that you get at night.
So, honestly, that does leave you with a problem. The scene written above would need TONS of lights. You'd need key and fill (or key and back) lights plus background highlights to put a little light behind your main actors for the people on top of the hill, then down in the camp, you'd need light sources on a number of the tents from at least two directions to make them stand out...plus you'll have to hide all of those lights from the camera for the wide shot.
Now, here's the real bad news...generators are a pain in the ass. They always make too much noise, they always trip off or run out of fuel at the wrong moment...it's crazy.
So, what can you do? Do less wide shots and diffuse those halogens (moonlight is pretty soft light), while just making sure that you are lighting from a consistent direction. Best advice I think is to go back to your script and your storyboards and rewrite with what you can shoot in mind. How can you use the lighting weaknesses to build a sense of purposeful style in your story?
Draw up some storyboards and throw them up here maybe. Use a lot of dark in the storyboard frame for those night scenes.
B
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Posted Feb 25, 2007, 3:10 pm
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filmmakerbruce
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Drew,
Forgot to say this...
Whatever lighting scheme you work up, test it! Go out months before you plan on really shooting and set the lights up, shoot it, capture it and see what it looks like on the monitor. Then, figure out what needs changing.
B
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Posted Feb 25, 2007, 3:17 pm
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daveindezmenez
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Here is an idea - if your editing software permits, shoot the various elements separately and composite them together into your one shot for the wide shot:
You could do a drawing of your location and indicate where various elements go (tents, groups of soldiers, etc.) and set up the placement so the pieces won't overlap but will still look right. When you would shoot it you would lock down the camera on a good tripod and shoot each element separately (as much as you have lights to cover) - a group of soldiers in this corner, some tents here, etc. In your editing software you would take these separate shots (make sure they all are of the same length) and super impose them over each other until your whole wide shot is constructed. This would take some planning and probably some practice but it would be a way to stretch a limited light kit.
Also, don't forget that everything doesn't have to be a wide shot so take advantage of this to cut down on the number lights you have to use.
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Posted Feb 26, 2007, 8:09 am
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DrewBarrett
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Joined: Feb 24, 2007
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I don't have any compositing program, just Premiere. I had thought about getting After Effects to possibly do a green screen with miniatures there for the Roag Camp, but wouldn't it be hard to get the lighting matched for the exterior night shot of Palidran and then the miniature shot, and I also realized I don't have the money for that.
I was thinking of putting lights in the tents, and using torches and then trying to figure out how to put other lights out that won't be seen.
I guess I could do this as a two shots, one as he looks over the cliff, then a shot of his face from below looking down, and then a shot of what he's seeing.
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Posted Feb 26, 2007, 6:46 pm
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filmmakerbruce
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Joined: Nov 28, 2006
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Drew,
Yeah, breaking up those shots will save you a ton of pain.
A few things...have one person specifically dedicated to fire prevention if you are using torches or any open flame. Probably more than one person. They do nothing but watch fires and stand by with extinguishers or water. Always safety first.
When using those dual halogen worklights, don't use both together as you'll get a weird double shadow from the lights being so close together. It's really funky looking.
On a different note, come down to a meeting when you can. It's a great way to really learn a lot and meet some experienced people first hand.
B
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Posted Feb 27, 2007, 11:37 am
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